Hass @ The Baked Potato?

[JoesMechanic]

GAMG.....

Wise words from the Yoda of HOD.

Groovesmitty writes........
"Jimmy Haslip and Russ Ferrante are not exactly what I would call creative jazz musicians"

Groovesmitty?? I did re-read your post and posted the quote. If it doesn't stand out to you, then I don't know what to say. If you don't think that's an insult, I don't know what is.

You 4 knuckleheads (groove, sdk, groove, and the other one??) need to learn to write period. If you don't mean to offend someone, then don't. People read printed posts "literally". That comment did nothing to advance your position. As a matter of fact, it just clouded it. Kinda like a backhanded compliment. Maybe something more like "If I were Dave, I would have preferred some other (so and so) bassist over Haslip only because I think (so and so) sounds more rooted in traditional jazz" that would have been fine. But MY PET PEEVE on this website is people that would say stuff they'd never say to a persons face. Save it for the kiddie drumboards. I'll be going to that gig and I'll make sure to quote "exactly" what you said "verbatim" to Jimmy and see if he takes offense to it. Wanna bet he'll take offense to it or just blow off what you said??

Probably the latter I'm sure as most great players/musicians would.

I noticed Erskoman on Jimmys credits (which are vast indeed.... that include alot of traditional jazzers). I wonder what Ersko's opinion is of Jimmys "jazz" bass playing is??

Derek.... call or e-mail me. We'll see if we can make it an HOD L.A. hang.

[Groovesmitty]

I find this very odd. Joe's, I enjoy and agree with most of your posts. I don't feel you are rightfully understanding me on this one. I can also tell from your past posts that your knowledge of music is very limited though your enthusiasm about music is wonderful. I will not take some your ignorant posts to heart. I remember some of your nonsense posts in the big band reading thread only to be squashed by Peter Erskine himself.

I did not mean to offend anyone.

What I said about those two brilliant musicians is nothing they themselves would not say. I have been friends with Jimmy for over 30 years. There was no back handed compliment. I also cannot control how you chose to interpret my post.
I agree with the Holdsworth post, although as far as guitar players I would personally put Mike Stern, John Scofield and Pat Metheny first. Holdsworth is a fusion player to my humble ears. I would also never include Gambale in there. In my opinion he is not the improvisor that Holdsworth is. I personally don't enjoy Gambale's improvising at all in a jazz/fusion setting. He's a great progressive rock shredder to my ears with some jazz influence. That's just my opinion.

FYI Peter Erskine played in the Yellowjackets, so that would explain the credit. The Yellowjackets are great. A completely different animal though.

The knucklehead comment was not at all appreciated and completely uncalled for. If anything at all, I think it was the knucklehead reading(or not reading) my words that misunderstood them, or chose to partake in selective reading.

Mechanic, please don't be offensive. You probably never even heard Dave Liebman's work and you have the nerve to contribute to this post.

I cannot at all understand why people seem to tense up and get defensive when I speak without buffers. I said nothing wrong, only stating the facts I know about these musicians. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm very knowledgable about them, and posses a record collection of over 12,000 albums and CDs.

To quickly change the topic, I just received a note from my buddy Randy Brecker. Michael is not doing well. He's very sick. He needs chemo and a bone marrow transplant. Let's pray for him.

[Paraflam]

Groovesmitty as eloquant as you can be sometimes, I think you may have been a bit too honest. I agree with you completely. I think the knuckehead comment was way out of line, and made the poster look like the knucklehead. I love Dave Liebman's band with Jamey Haddad on drums.
Those are guys(Jimmy and Russ) are amazing session/jazz fusion and groove players. They can also play jazz, but they don't play jazz like jazz musicians. You can't put them in the same league as Geoff Keezer, the late Kenny Kirkland, Joey Caldarazzo, Christian McBride, James Genus or anyone that plays acoustic jazz for a living. I think I get what you're saying. It was misunderstood for sure. Apologies are in order because what you said makes a ton of sense to those of us who know and love jazz music.

My prayers are with Michael.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 17, 2005 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Paraflam ]</font>

[zmorton]

While I understand and appreciate where some of you are coming from I just don't understand, as a student of Jazz, how you can say so and so is not a good Jazz musician without being more specific with what you say. The amount of music at today?s date that can be categorized at Jazz is quite large. If you are more specific in saying so and so is not a traditional jazz player, or be bop player, or swing player, or fusion player, and so on and so on... I think your opinions would be better received and understood rather than being perceived as attacks on these great musicians.

Just my opinion.

[GoMan]

I think so to. A whole of this whole jazz vs. non jazz stuff is a pretty wierd thing to argue about when the word jazz itself is kinda vague and covers a whole lotta ground.

While my ears aren't that good,.. Im not a really experienced listener and and also much less experienced at actually playing jazz.... But I do understand what you guys are talking about often times... well at least I can understand what you guys mean to say, and its fine with me.

So if youd also be specific about what kind of jazz youre talking about, people wouldnt really wanna fight about it either. As Zak said above, if youd let us know exactly what you are talking about ... by not saying jazz... but say straight ahead, bop or acoustic ... or something like that, itd be easier to understand.

I dont think you guys should fight about it any more. Its clearly a misunderstanding, groovesmitty obviously didnt mean to be rude and attack someone like that... it was just not worded right in my opinion thats all.

I just realized that Im basicly repeating the post above...

but state ments like.... "they can play jazz but they dont play like jazz musicians" is ... to me, another statement that could make sense... but its not really worded right in my opinion.
"They can play jazz but they dont play it in the acoustic/straight ahead/bop style" or something woulda been clearer and therefor better. Theres not much room to misinterpret, or to be offended by a statement like that.

just my opinion.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 17, 2005 08:59 PM: Message edited by: GoMan ]</font>

[troutbrooke]

[img]graemlins/shhh.gif[/img]

[Henry II]

Originally posted by Groovesmitty:
. . . That my dear drumming friends is an unarguable fact. . . .

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Inarguable."

[JoesMechanic]

Groovesmitty writes.......
"I remember some of your [JoesMechanic]nonsense posts in the big band reading thread only to be squashed by Peter Erskine himself"

I suggest you go back and read that thread really well, because it was Ersko schooling "you guys" (is that better than knuckleheads??). It was pretty obvious to most here.

I think the majority of the HOD guys were pretty preturbed by "youz guyzez" posts. And if you think "youz guyzez" posts are accepted as "polite", then why the continuous huge uproar and debate over what "youz guyz" post??

But whatever, doesn't bother me in the least. You've made yourselves the "ongoing joke" of "Jazz Nazi" threads.

As far as my knowledge of music?? You don't know me or what I do or don't know. But in my own opinion, I certainly don't think I know enough to act as if I could read Dave Liebmans mind regarding selecting musicians to play with him. I think they'll do just fine and probably play their asses off. And yes..... I have a pretty startling straight ahead, Bop, and Swing collection if I say so myself.

Plese PM me your name so I can tell Jimmy you said hi. K??

Your screen name reminds me of a story Weckl once told me. Some trash talking Smitty once did about Dave not knowing how to play "real Jazz". But it seems that this business is full of trash talkers for some reason.

I understand Randys doing better. God bless him.

[PocketPlayer]

GO AHEAD...Make my day! [img]mad.gif[/img]



Ahhhhh...I feel better now [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[HASSBEAT]

WOW! You guys are relentless, what passion!!
I'm sitting here at the Madrid airport on a 5 hour lay over. I took out my little practipal pad and began working on some Moeller until I began receiving dirty looks. Good thing I discovered this free wireless internet. After checking my email I decided to visit HOD. I haven't been in here in a while....and WOW!!! Being that an upcoming gig of mine started this war, I must interject.

Groovesmitty, thanks for your positive posts about my drumming, and thanks for your overall support. Thanks to all you cats!
I'd like to say one thing. Musicians who are as "bad" as Jimmy and Russ, can and will adapt to any situation. Whether it be Dave Liebman or Madonna.
I myself do pay homage to the tradition of jazz drumming. I prefer having an open tuning and a 4 piece kit with my dark cymbals, however you don't have to this to play jazz. Many great musicians don't. If I may also add, let's say I gained success with one of the many rock projects I'm a part of, rather than the jazz projects. You would never even be aware of my jazz skills. Don't assume that the Yellowjackets as individual musicians are not rooted in jazz. They certainly are. In answer to your electric bass comment. Jaco played electric bass, I'd rather swing with him over many of today's acoustic bass players. Please don't misconstrue that comment. That tends to happen in here from what I have read.

After thoroughly reading the posts, I believe that you're jumping to conclusions and if you're so tight with Jimmy, you would fully be aware of his skills. In addition, I know that Joe's Mechanic began the low blows, but insulting his musical knowledge is no better on your part. Kiss and make up!

As far as the gigs go, I'm not 100% sure if I can make them. I was just notified that The East Village Opera Company, Universal's latest gem, has asked me to partake in a music video for their first single. We're currently in financial negotiations. The deciding factors will be whether or not we come to an agreement and/or if they can change the filming dates.
If I am at the Potato, you have my apologies in advanced. I've been touring and recording non stop, Jeff Richman's music is quite difficult from what I've heard, and I'll be reading the gig. I have no time to rehearse or even listen to the tracks. I know it will be fun though. Not sure if you'll be witnessing my strongest playing. Sorry. :-)

A shout out to Rodge who I met up with in Paris, and the great Peter Erskine whom I also briefly met up with in Paris. Erskine sounded simply beautiful with his trio at the Sunset.

That's all for now, I'm going to grab a baguette sandwich and a glass of Rioja, and chill out with my man Mike Pope.
Peace you guys!! It's just music.

By the way, Randy's fine. Michael Brecker is in the hospital with MDS and will under go some heavy treatments to begin in 3 weeks. My prayers are surely with him and his family. I know he'll be OK, but he's dealing with a lot at the moment.
Also, my deepest sympathies go out to Alan Pasqua who just lost his dad. He played bass until the very end, he was 86.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 18, 2005 07:54 AM: Message edited by: STEVE HASS ]</font>